BHAGWAN, YOU SAY THAT LOVE IS A LIBERATION. BUT YOUR ENEMIES AND CRITICS MAINTAIN THAT SOME OF THE PRACTICES THAT THE MOVEMENT IS ENCOURAGING SEEM TO BE INSPIRED MORE THAN — MR. HEFNER OF PLAYBOY THAN BY A SPIRITUAL LEADER. WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THIS?
A: I am a spiritual playboy. Is there something wrong? I call myself Zorba the Buddha and that’s my whole life effort: to bring Zorba and Buddha closer. I don’t want the dichotomy of the spiritual and the material. I want the spiritual and the material as one whole — they are. The division creates a schizophrenic state in humanity. And all the religions are criminals in that sense. They have created a split in man: your body is separate, your soul is separate. You have to fight with the body, you have to remain celibate. You have to fast, you have to torture the body. The more you torture it, the more spiritual you are. To me this is simply garbage, just nonsense. There is no need to torture the body, because the body and the soul are not two things. Existence is one. The body is the visible soul, and the soul is the invisible body — it is one mystery. Don’t divide it, and don’t make a conflict between them.
So when I say “spiritual playboy,” I am not just joking. That’s my basic standpoint towards life. What is wrong if Buddha is dancing in a disco? It looks so beautiful — a beautiful girl… and why should Buddha be afraid? Is not his meditation strong enough, he will be pulled towards carnal lust? Is he afraid of falling back from his enlightenment? Then he is not enlightened at all, because there is no way to fall back. Once you attain, you cannot fall back. It is your own inner being. Where you are going to fall back to? Once you know it, you know it! Then whatever you do, that knowledge is always there. Whatever you do, that fragrance follows you.
And there is no act which is unspiritual; even lovemaking is not unspiritual. In fact, if lovemaking is unspiritual, then every other act will be unspiritual. Lovemaking should be the most spiritual act. It is so delicate, so soft. But the religions have created the division, and created on the one hand saints which are just dry bones, and the other, sinners. If I have to choose — I don’t want to choose –
if I have to choose I would rather be with the sinners than with the saints — they stink. Sinners at least are colorful people. If all sinners go to hell, then hell must be the most beautiful place in the world. And heaven must be the most ugly, because all those dead dry bones, long faces, will be sitting there eternally doing nothing: no entertainment, no dance, no music, not even football match — no Olympics; saints don’t participate in such things. They can’t drink, they can’t smoke.
What they can do? Just go on praying and nagging God. They must have killed that poor fellow long before.
But in hell I can see all the beautiful people of the world. Lao-Tzu will be there. Chuang-Tzu will be there, Gautam Buddha will be there — because he did not believe in God, he was an atheist. Bertrand Russell will be there, Socrates will be there, Plato and Heraclitus, all great painters — Van Gogh, Picasso — all great thinkers — Jean-Paul Sartre, Jaspers*. Hell will be a real company, and very colorful. Omar Khayyam will be there, and all kinds of juicy people — the whole of Hollywood. All actors, all actresses, all great showmen, all carnivals, circuses — hell must be from end to end a tremendous rejoicing. But I don’t want to choose, I want them to mix. I want only one place where saints can become again alive, can start breathing, can start dancing, can start loving, can become spiritual playboys.
Certainly people must be getting offended, but what can I do? This is how I feel. This is my truth, and I have to say it exactly as it is. I am not at all concerned whether it shocks somebody, makes somebody worried. If it is true, then sooner or later they will have to understand it. And as far as I can see, for thirty years I have tried to look from every angle and I have always found it to be something very fundamental, categorically true, that man has come to the point where all schizophrenia has to be dropped. We are no more going to live like split personalities, fighting with ourselves. I don’t see any problem, why I cannot meditate sitting in my Rolls Royce. Do you think meditation is possible only under a bodhi tree? Has a bodhi tree something spiritual in it? I think a more comfortable place will help you to meditate better. Rather than sitting in the hot sun, an air-conditioned room will be more helpful to meditation.
There is no dichotomy between the two. Comfort, luxury, spiritually — all are together. So I teach richness and I teach religiousness. I teach materialism and I teach spiritualism. For the first time somebody is doing it. Naturally, people will be shocked. They are always shocked with anything new and strange.
This is an excerpt from the transcript of a public discourse by Osho in Buddha Hall, Shree Rajneesh Ashram, Pune.
The Last Testament, Vol 3
Chapter title: None
15 October 1985 pm in Sanai Grove
Osho has spoken on ‘meditation, Zorba the Buddha, spiritual, material’ in many of His discourses. More on the subject can be referred to in the following books/discourses: