:: INTERVIEW ::

Swami Om Prakash Saraswati was the epitome of a disciple. Lovingly known as Swamiji, his commitment and surrender to his master, Osho, was total and absolute. Sent by his master to start a meditation center in Delhi, Swamiji as a true disciple, with love, devotion and dedication became the vehicle of his beloved master in spreading His vision. While he continued to work and promote the vision of Osho, he went deeper into his spiritual journey. While Swamiji blossomed in meditation, his inner growth manifested in his work. This section is dedicated to experiences of sannyasins who have come in direct contact with Swamiji at some point of time and have been inspired by his compassion, dedication and commitment.
(Click here to know more about Swami Om Prakash Saraswati)

Q- Swamiji Namaskar, What is your sannyas name?
A- My sannyas name Swami Karan Prayag.

Q- But most of your friends know you by the name of Kapur Sahab.
A- Yes, Everyone of my friends know me by the name of Kapur Sahab only. Even Swamiji also used to call me Kapur Sahab.

Q- Where were you born?
A- I was born in Faizlabad in Pakistan in the year 1943. After partition we came to India.

Q- You had your education in India.
A- Yes I completed my education in India and after completing my Law, I started my occupation by setting up an industry. 

Q- After studying Law, how did you choose a technical business?
A- My inner interest was in the technical field and I got an opportunity. I started my work and have been successful.

Q - Nobody in your family had ever done business or started an industry.
A- Nobody from my family ever had done business before.

Q- So you seem to have been of rebellious nature from the beginning.
A- Yes, but not exactly rebellious, yet I was different and used to be in my own whims.

Q- What is your present work?
A- Presently I am a successful businessman and we manufacture spare parts for the two wheeler industry and we have a good rapport in the market of northern India for manufacturing spare parts.

Q - Do you supply parts to auto industries too like Maruti etc?
A- Yes, Maruti, Hero Honda and Yamaha.

Q - General Motors?
A- Not General Motors, but we supply to Delphi, a company which is a subsidiary of General Motors.

Q - How did you get connected to Osho?
A- I was not a religious man. I found a book called "Asambhav Kranti" and when I was going through the book, I realized that it is speaking of something different and I felt that I must read the infamous book "Sambhog Se Samadahi Ki Aur". So I purchased the book and when I read the book I realized that this is a very educative and inspirational book. The truth that the book contained has never been told before to us by anybody. So after reading the book my search for truth increased. 

Q - How did you pursue the search?
A- I was on a visit to Muradabad when I found this book and when I came back to Rohtak, I first thing I did in the next morning was to rush to the market to purchase more books of Osho and I got 1-2 books in the market and one of them was "Satya Ki Pehli Kiran". I mentioned about my search for Osho books to one of my friends and he told me that there is a shop in Rohtak that deals in audio cassettes. Swamiji Narayan has established this shop where Osho cassettes and books were available. Then I came in touch with Swami Narendra and I went to his shop and bought a few cassettes.

Q- He had a hardware shop. He was selling Osho books in a hardware shop?
A- Yes, he had put a showcase in the hardware shop where he had displayed Osho books very neatly. I bought the first audio cassette of Osho from there only and also I came to know about Swamiji from there.

Q - In which year?
A- It was in 1980-81.

Q- It was during that period you came in touch with Swamiji.
A- Yes, Swami Narayan informed me that Swamiji from Delhi was coming to his place for a two days program and invited me to the program. So I went to his place to meet Swamiji. My experience on the first day was very beautiful. Whenever I used sit near Swamiji, my teeth used to clatter. In the beginning I thought that I was suffering from some ailment. When it happened for the third time I realized that whenever I sit near Swamiji, it happens and I became worried that I have caught some disease of which I am not aware. Later I told Swami Narayan that whenever I am near Swamiji, my teeth clatters and I cannot control myself at that time. Swami Narayan told me that it is an auspicious sign. I said that I have a problem and you are saying that it is auspicious, I could not understand anything. He told me not to worry and I forgot about the whole thing. Then I started visiting Delhi to meet Swamiji. On Sundays Swamiji used to conduct beautiful kirtan. At that time Swamiji himself used to conduct kirtan for one hour. Me and my wife, we both used to come for the kirtan regularly and slowly I could feel the transformation in my life. I would like to mention that before met Swamiji and before I read Osho, I was a drunkard. I completed my law in 1965 and before that I had never touched liquor. Then when I got married, I started drinking and five days in a week I used to take drink upto five pegs at one time. Then when I started coming to Swamiji and participated in kirtan, my intake of liquor reduced, I could not leave entirely but it was reduced. It reduced to four pegs from five, and to three pegs from four and also it came down to four days in a week then to three days in a week. It took me three years to bid farewell to liquor. I did not leave drinking on my own but it somehow it happened on its own. I used to come to meet Swamiji and it so happened once that I had a fight with my wife. I had come to Faridabad on some business and on my way back, I dropped in to meet Swamiji. I told Swamiji that again I have fallen. Swamiji asked what had gone wrong. I told Swamiji everything an that I had a fight with my wife. Swamiji said that it happens. He said " before you have been living in that state and you could not realize it but it is good that now you are aware of yourself falling in hell again. There is a fat chance of your coming out of that hell. You are fortunate". That day I sat near Swamiji and then went home. I went to sleep after dinner. When I woke in the morning, went outside and watched the trees, it was raining bliss all around and for the first time I realized that sitting with Swamiji has made it possible. That day I understood the value of satsang and what happens when one sits in Swamiji presence. My journey started and the whole one week went very smoothly and peacefully. I often used to have fights with my wife though we never raised hands on one another yet we used to have verbal fights everyday. We used to feel sometimes that we cannot stay together anymore. But since the day I went back after sitting with Swamiji, I was full of love and for the first time I experienced love. Hen a new connection began with Swamiji and every week we started visiting center. We used to start from Rohtak at three in the morning and reach center by five. Swamiji used to get up at that time and we would sit for one hour with him. There used to be hardly any talk at that moment. After having a cup of tea for which Swamiji always insisted, we used to go back home. I used to spend the next one week or ten days in complete bliss. After 10 days, I again reach a stage when my anger reaches a height and fights starts. At that time my wife used to say that your battery has again got discharged, so lets go and sit with Swamiji. We used to again come to center to be with Swamiji. This is how my inner journey began and within three years my life was much transformed.

Q- So do you feel that Swamiji influenced you in some way or the other that you returned a changed man after sitting with Swamiji.
A- While sitting with Swamiji, we hardly used to talk. Often, when I used to come and sit near Swamiji, he used to just formally ask, "how are you Kapur Sahab, how are your children and how is your work going on?" After two-three minutes Swamiji used to become silent. By sitting with Swamiji, I used to go completely empty in mind. I used to get the taste of Osho, of silence and that drowning into silence used to keep me aware during the coming week and helped me in inner transformation. As my awareness increased and I went deeper into meditation, my life became beautiful.

Q- You metioned "taste of Osho". You had the good fortune of seeing Osho from very close in Manali.
A- Yes

Q- Did you feel same vibrations in Swamiji's presence?
A- The taste that I got by sitting with Swamiji, the same I felt in Poona. I got acquainted with that taste. I also felt the same in Osho's presence. When Osho was returning from America, I was standing near Maitrayeeji in the crowd. The same taste of silence I felt near Maitrayeeji and near Chinmayaji who was also there. Wherever I used to find him, I went and stood beside him. As far as I know he too was aware of it because I feel that whenever I went near him, an energy field was created. I felt that energy from my body was hitting him and he too realized that someone receptive was standing near him. So I was standing behind Chinmayaji and he turned back to see me so I felt that he too was aware that somebody was with him. 

Q- During that period were you doing some meditations through the techniques devised by Osho?
A- I had done kirtan meditation more often but we had also done Kundalini meditation for a long time at home after kirtan meditation. Then we changed it and did some active meditations for sometime. But wherever there used to be a meditation camp, I used to go and participate and in every camp I got the same taste of silence. After those three days of meditation I used to return a changed man and it has transformed me a lot.

Q- You have a long association with Swamiji since 1980 though you did not talk with each other often. Have you seen or felt any transformation in Swamiji during these twenty years?
A- I cannot definitely say whether there was a transformation in Swamiji or my receptivity had increased. Because my preparation was also going on at the same time. And whenever I sat with Swamiji, I used to feel the waves and it got stronger with time. Two years back when I was sitting with Swamiji, just a few days before Swamiji's enlightenment, the depth of silence was very different. I sat with Swamiji for one hour and I went very deep in meditation. That day Swamiji told me " today I really relished with you". I said " Swamiji, I always relish in your company". So I feel that Swamiji was very happy by sharing and that I have received and he was really very happy. 

Q- On 21st May, Swamiji declared his enlightenment. Did you feel any difference in Swamiji before and after his enlightenment?
A- I could feel the depth after his enlightment. I have been coming here after his enlightenment and it so happened that if I got time twice a week, I used to be eager to come to Swamiji and wanted to spend more and more time in his presence. I kept coming and my pace increased and I went deeper in silence in Swamiji's presence.

Q- You meditated in Oshodham with Swamiji for a long time.
A- Yes

Q- Any incident that you want to mention?
A- I was not in touch with Swamiji in between for some years. I was busy with my business. Then I came to know that on weekends, Swamiji used to come to Oshodham and conduct meditations. I started coming there. For almost six months meditated with Swamiji in Oshodham. We were about ten meditators but Swamiji was so determined in giving us a taste that though he was weak in health yet just for ten meditators he used to come and conduct meditation. For six months I continued to meditate in Oshodham regularly on weekends and there I found my meditation. Swamiji used to conduct some particular meditations. I went deeper in whirling meditation. When Swamiji used to conduct Natraj meditation, I used to do whirling meditation. Once I had such a beautiful experience during whirling meditation that I felt myself separate from my body and after that I grew more.

Q- In these 20 years or so, what connection you felt between Swamiji and Osho?
A- I think there cannot be a better example of a disciple's complete surrender to his master than Swamiji's total surrender to Osho. With such dedication, Swamiji carried on his master's work and some of the work did not suit Swamiji as such. To do Osho's work and guiding the seekers wit the pros and cons, I have never seen such a beautiful dedication. I know that I do not have that kind of dedication. In comparision to him, I feel that we haven't started our journey as of yet.

Q- What more do you want to say about Swamiji, the way he was dedicated to Osho. From where do you think that must have come?
A-This taste of silence and meditation is such that whosoever has tasted it willnot have any other desire in life. This taste only brings about the transformation. If somebody has not really tasted it, then transformation will not happen and this is one such taste that you cannot help but dedicate yourself to the person in whose presence it happened. It is impossible that somebody tasted meditation and was not dedicated to his guru. Today Swamiji is not in his body, but I can realize today that my dedication for Swamiji has grown so much that I never realized when he was in his body. Today I am filled to the brim with love for him that I never realized before. Before I used to wonder what was holding me back from within that could not become totally dedicated to my guru. My whole life was changed and transformed but I was not able to submit myself from within. I realize that now. Now I have dropped the lot and totally submitted myself. Whosoever gets this taste of meditation, he cannot help dropping his lot and bowing down which in my understanding, is connected to one another. Whosoever gets the taste of meditation will become dedicated, these two things are one and the same. 

Q- On 27th March, you were here when Swamiji left his body. You were close to him and dear to him, so how did you feel at that moment.
A- I did not feel sad at that moment. There was much bliss at that time that it cannot be described how it was. Even now when I come here or even when I am in Rohtak, that bliss is with me and is getting deeper. Now I feel that Swamiji is with me all the time. He may not be in his body but I always feel his presence and I am going deeper in meditation. Every morning I sit in silence for one hour and I am getting deeper and deeper which I was not experiencing before. I feel that his blessing is showering even now.

Q- Do you feel that his special love is showering on you?
A- It is not so. This is a question that I ask friends who are in their inner journey, ahead of myself, long time sannyasins and who had been with Osho. The same question I had asked Swami Vairagya Amrit recently that why is it so that all of us do not get this tatste of silence. So many people were in close proximity with Swamiji for a long time couldnot experience it. I feel that their talks are enlightening but they have not been able to taste that silence, why it so? Swami Vairagya replied that a stone that rolls down from a mountain, becomes round with that rolling, so just like that stone every person's journey is his own. A person whose ego vanishes and becomes receptive with such a rolling is able to experience this taste. I have asked this question so many time and it is still there. Recently, Osho World Patrika published by you carried stories on Bodhidharma and Mahakashyap. Buddha gave him a lotus flower and said that "I am giving you something that cannot be described in words". Mahakashyap laughed and understood. The other story of Mahakashyap tells that Bodhidharma was sitting facing the door for nine years and after nine years one person came and said either look up or should I cut off your head. So I felt that why is it so that people intelligent than me cannot experience this taste. I still have this question that so many people lived in close proximity with Osho and for years they are meditating but when I met some of them recently they said that "We are with Osho for a long time but experienced the real taste now. We now know what is the taste of meditation". So it is not that Swamiji had a special compassion for me. I think that I used to be neutral while sitting with Swamiji and that's why I could have a dip in the holy Ganges. 

Q - You are right. Many friends here felt that after 27th March, his presence is even more here. Whether they are here or somewhere else, they are feeling his strong presence. 
A- I am feeling his presence very strongly and I feel that Swamiji is showering even more. Herenow when I am talking to you, I have experienced strong vibrations 5-6 times that Swamiji is showering his blessing.

Q- I want to share with you that when Swamiji was in Apollo hospital, everyone staying here felt that as if they were staying in a haunted house. And when Swamiji returned from Apollo to his room, though he was not going out or talking to anyone yet everyone felt that suddenly the center was full and winds started to blow.
A- Whenever I had come to Delhi to meet Swamiji, as soon as I used to enter South Delhi, I used to feel that invitation and today also the same is happening. Today while coming, I was in the Mayapuri crossing and I felt a strong invitation, so I did not feel any difference and rather I am experiencing something deeper today and I am very fortunate that I experienced such beautiful moments because apart from dropping my vices like liquor and anger, which are very external, within myself I became very creative and silent. Even today I am struggling with my problems but these problems doesnot touch from within. As I was sharing with you, I am having labour problems in my factory for the last 5-6 months but I am not restless and reactive about the whole situation. I am taking it very coolly and beautifully managing it, for example, no one in the factory witnessed a certain behaviour because of the on going labour strike. This is a very big growth in my life. I am a living example of the change that happened after staying in close proximity with Swamiji.

Q- You mean transformation?
A- Yes, a complete transformation.

Q- To become a new man.
A- I am totally new and at the moment I am 68 years old but my creativity is on rise everyday. In the factory where we manufacture parts, even there my creativity is on a rise. Everyday there is a new innovation in the production technique and there is a quest for new methods.

Q- You have told us about your transformation and how it happened in his presence. What can one learn from Swamiji's life and from him as a person according to you. What do you want to convey about Swamiji to the new sannyasins.
A- he basic thing to learn from Swamiji is that one should meditate with a true heart growthfully and if one experiences the taste of meditation then transformation will happen in its own accord without doing anything else and intellectual words doesnot have anything to do with it. When there is a real balance from within then there is a transformation without the need of ten commandmants or reading the Geeta, or the Bible or the Quran. When you are silent from within, then you become one with the existence and there is a guiding light with you. Its such a beautiful experience that I being a law graduate could find solutions for the technical problems that I face in my engineering line. When I go and look at those problems, I feel that the solution is coming automatically from outside and I am just receiving it. I feel that some signals are coming from outside and not from my brain and I am just receiving it. That is the outcome of meditation and Swamiji's effort was also on the same lines. I took sannyas from Swamiji recently, I had already taken sannyas from Ma Yog Laxmi when Osho was in Manali but when Swamiji got enlightened, I really wanted to take sannyas from Swamiji. I was afraid to tell Swamiji as I felt Swamiji might say "Are you out of your mind"? Then one day I told him that "Swamiji I feel like taking sannyas from you". He asked "You will take sannyas?" I said "yes Swamiji, I want to take sannyas from you". He said "fine". The Swamiji asked me to give sannyas. During sannyas initiation, Swamiji told me that "from today you will meditate for one hour regularly, I am telling you to do this." So, Swamiji's emphasis was more on meditation. When I used to come here in the beginning, I used to meditate but had not taken sannyas. For about 5-6 years I did not take sannyas. Many friends were here and if in the presence of Swamiji, someone used to ask me "Kapur Sahab, Why don't you taken sannyas", Swamiji used to scold that person. Swamiji used to say " he will take sannyas when he has to, you meditate first". So, Swamiji used to feel that my journey was right. I am meditating and growing and his last message to me was also that "you have to meditate regularly for one one hour". Even regular meditation for fifteen days makes such a big difference and now if I meditate for half an hour in the morning, that freshness is with me the whole day, a different environment is created.

Q- So Swamiji will remain an inspiration and command for the new comers.
A- Yes

Q- What more inspiration can be drawn from Swamiji's life?
A- If one continues to meditate then all the inspiration comes from within as I shared with you, for example, the feeling of dedication which drew on me was not there before. I feel that Swamiji's message for a work to be done by someone will happen on its own if that person continues to meditate and taste it and with awareness do the meditations. Many people are doing different meditation techniques. Many people say that they are doing active meditations for six months but the technique they are adopting is wrong. If nothing is happening then it is due to the wrong techniques and they should change it and do some other meditation. Some people do not understand this. When I started my inner journey, I too did not understand the techniques properly and started doing the meditations but it was wrong. So many things I realized with the passage of time. When I started doing meditations with Swamiji in the weekends, then many things were cleared that how to do the meditations and how to use the techniques. Now the techniques of active meditations are the most beautiful techniques but the most wrongly done. The very first stahe is not done properly. There are two things in it, fast and deep. Fast and deep exhalation, then loosen the body like a rubber. The body becomes stiff and the people who do this meditation become tensed and they either breathe out lightly or very heavily. When one breathes out heavily then he gets tired, and if lightly then it is of no use. So when one breathes out deeply, fast and from the navel, then only the first stage is right and if the first stage is done rightly, the second stage happens on its own. If people do these meditations rightly, then we can transform the whole society. If a drunkardlike me can transform then why not others. My whole family's life has changed. I have a son. I used to tell him to do meditations. One day he told me that don't tell me to do this meditations and I will not do it. For six years I did not tell him again to do meditations. After six years, one day he tells me that "I want to meditate, life doesnot mean thatyou grow up, give birth to children, you die, children grow up, get married and they too die. There should be something more meaningful to life. I want to try meditations". So he started active meditations. He dedicated 90 days to meditation. I couldnot do it but he did it and there was a complete transformation in him. Before his starting the meditation, I had told him that this factory, I have set up for you only, start managing and running it. He told me that its not possible for me, I donot want to and I cannot run it. Forty days after he started doing meditation, he took full charge of the factory. Today he is working three times more than me. Presently, he has an experience of eight years and he has done dynamic meditation regularly for 90 days twice. After doing themeditations he was completely transformed that he attained the same experience in seven years that I could attain in 30 years. Now I take his advice on many issues. That is the outcome of meditation and that meditations can transform to such an extent. Osho has given very beautiful techniques of meditations. But people are not doing it to the fullest. They think that with a leap they can attain it. But it is not possible. One should devote atleast one hour everyday.

Q- Thank you Swamji
A- Thank you very much.