:: INTERVIEW ::

Swami Om Prakash Saraswati was the epitome of a disciple. Lovingly known as Swamiji, his commitment and surrender to his master, Osho, was total and absolute. Sent by his master to start a meditation center in Delhi, Swamiji as a true disciple, with love, devotion and dedication became the vehicle of his beloved master in spreading His vision. While he continued to work and promote the vision of Osho, he went deeper into his spiritual journey. While Swamiji blossomed in meditation, his inner growth manifested in his work. This section is dedicated to experiences of sannyasins who have come in direct contact with Swamiji at some point of time and have been inspired by his compassion, dedication and commitment.
(Click here to know more about Swami Om Prakash Saraswati)

AA _ Hello Ma Shashin, What is your legal name?

MS - My legal name is Shashin Kiran

AA - Where were you born?

MS - Delhi 

AA- Tell us a little bit about your family that you were born in and the school you went to.

MS- I come from a big family and my parents are from former Pakistan, western India, now in Pakistan and my father is an engineer. He started small business in electronics many many years ago and the family is all involved in it.

AA - So would you say were born in a upper middle class educated happy family.

MS - Yes, but not entirely a happy family.

AA - But you got all the love and affection of your parents, brothers, sisters, generally of all the family.

MS - Yes I did.

AA - Something about your schooling.

MS - I did my schooling from a Public school and then I went to a college of Delhi University.

AA - What are your impressions of your schooling. How would you describe yourself as a student in school?

MS- I was a very robust and energetic student and an athlete and very happy during my school days. 

AA - You had great friends?

MS - Yes, I had lots of good friends, lots of good teachers who were also good friends.

AA- Any lasting impressions that you still remember about your teachers or any of your friends.

MS - Some of my friends during school are still my friends and we share good moments together even today.
AA - So you would say you have continued with your friendship and relationships since school. 

MS - Yes with people who wanted to continue.

AA - After school you went to college to study English?

MS - Yes I did.

AA - Any impressions of college days?

MS - Not very many.

AA - Your school friends continued in college as well.

MS - That's right.

AA - Life generally for students changes soon after school, suddenly they find great freedom and less load. Did something like that happen to you?

MS - We had lot of freedom and exposure even when I was in school. Family was fairly open to several issues. But I also did a lot of social work during my college days because we had a lot of spare time and we worked for a blind school as a group of young people.

AA - You were telling us about the blind school projects you did.

MS - Yes, We worked with a blind school in Darya Gunj for about three years. Assisted in administration and in education of these children. So we were well exposed in as children during school and also were very active during college.

AA - So you would say you had a satisfying education in school and college?

MS - Yes.

AA - When did you first come in contact with Osho?

MS- I first came in contact with Osho in the year 1980. 

AA - If I june ask, not how old were you but how soon after college.

MS- I was in college at that time.

AA - What was that first experience?

MS - Overwhelming.

AA - Would you describe that first contact for us?

MS - My friends who had very strong devotion for Osho and as I was reading a lot during those days, I asked them for a book and I read "The Heart Sutra" from cover to cover overnight. It was an eye opener because my education and also exposure to several other institutions during school and college never gave me this kind of an experience.

AA - It must have been a very intense experience to have read this book cover to cover overnight. Do you remember something from that book which really affected your heart.

MS - I distinctly remember the key is to be in the heart whereas earlier all decisions and a major part of life was governed strictly by the mind.

AA - So here you found a radically different way of life, of thinking?

MS - Not only that, also very fulfilling because it transformed the way I was looking at things, it transformed relationships.

AA - After reading this book how long did you take to take sannyas?

MS - Close to two years.

AA - So during these two year you were reading His books or listening to discourses or doing meditations

MS - I was doing all three.

AA - What was the experience, if you remember.

MS - I was doing dynamic for a long time and I came to the Rajyoga meditation center in the mornings to learn that there was a lot in me which was suppressed and as though I had lived many a lives of suppression. And I felt very natural, very relaxed and I was more connected with myself, especially with dynamic that I focused on. In addition I heard Osho virtually every evening. Sometimes I would hear an audiotape repeatedly trying to understand the message for me. The audios were very very healing, so was also reading because I enjoyed being by myself reading for long hours.

AA - What was your impression of Osho at that time? Did you connect with him as somebody very intelligent who has written very good books and spoken such beautiful words or given out these techniques or you already connected with Him as a guru?

MS - My family is very religious, however religion is ritual. Especially my mother, so my first exposure to religion not as mere rituals was through Osho and my connection was purely a guru and disciple.

AA - Even before you took sannyas?
MS - Yes

AA - Any other major event during these two years

MS - I had friends at the center and I was reading and there were several exhibitions during these two years. There were magazine promotion campaigns.

AA - You participated in all those?

MS - Yes and I also saw how people from different walks of life, from different families lived as one at the center. 

AA - That was very important. They were all connected by one single family. 

MS - Yes they had a common thread and there was very deep harmony.

AA - So after that you went and took sannyas from Osho.

MS - Osho was in the US and I delayed my trip to Pune. So I went to Pune and was initiated in His absence.

AA - After sannyas, how did your life change in anyway?

MS - Life never seemed the same after that. 

AA - You had already met Osho, remember that you were doing His meditations, you were spending a lot of time with His people before sannyas. So now after sannyas what changed?

MS - There was a dramatic change because all the physical changes were visible to people in the family and around and it was time for me to also start making a living for myself. So I was at a bend in life and I did not miss, at least I tried to be with myself and with Osho as much as I could. I realized that I was more connected with my heart and washed the mind many a times, I washed the conflicts and the best moments were of surrender.

AA - So you took sannyas in Poona and came back to Delhi wearing red clothes and a mala. What was your experience with the society and your family which was so to say a respectable family in society.

MS - I quite anticipated the shock amongst my friends and people at home and sure enough most of my friends parted and my family was very disturbed. I would make very gentle efforts to explain to them. I was very loving at the same time but they took a long time to acknowledge and kind of respect my love for Osho.


AA - Why did you move to center? Did you have any problems meditating at home?

MS - Yes there were too many conflicts and I did have problems meditating at home. 

AA - So what was life to have an infamous guru. Osho was known as the sex guru at that time. What was life for you at that time living at the Osho center and working in the world.

MS - I used to work in a commercial complex and people would ask me a several questions as to why I donned a mala and why I was wearing maroon all the time. It evoked a lot of interest in people and sure enough it did in fact result in a few people who began to read Osho. My employers were a little hesitant initially but I assured that my work would never be compromised and I was going to the largest companies of the government of India and did a lot of commendable work. And as I said it evoked a lot of interest. In many a meetings, people would want to know What Osho was and what He said.

AA - Did the problems in adopting and maintaining this lifestyle, did these problems ever bring doubt in your mind about having this guru.

MS - On the other hand I was absolutely certain that I was really blessed to be with a master like Him.

AA - How did you connect with Him, as a friend or as a person with whom had a love affair or as a guru or a religious leader. What was your impression at that time soon after sannyas?

MS - When I first read Him, I had not met Him. It was a love affair. And I realize all the years it graduated to a guru and a shishya relationship where surrender and love were almost at par. 

AA - When did you first see Him?

MS - I first saw Him in the year 1984. 

AA - You have some memories of the first time you saw Him and how you felt?

MS - I traveled to Rajneeshpuram and my first meeting with Him was during the drive by and while He was driving past, hundreds of people who had lined up to see Him, He seemed that He was oozing with love for His people and the heat was no problem. One just wanted to be there be with Him, touch Him and feel Him.

AA - So you felt a sense of contentment and satisfaction after seeing Him drive by.

MS - It was like coming home. I longed to see Him for nearly three years.

AA - What was life in that commune?

MS - I was there more as a visitor and I would just wait for the drive by and satsang on most days to be with Him. I was there for a few weeks, however I was witnessed to many a miracles there. 

AA - Would you share one of them with us?

MS - There were people from all over the world who had connected with Him. It seemed not just in this life, it seemed as if it was a very ancient relationship with Him and most people were there as sheer chances. Life was like a flow there and it was a different world.

AA - There are two dimensions or wings of Osho. One is His work and the other His meditations. How did you see odds together in Rajneeshpuram happening.

MS - They complement each other especially for the morning ……, they go for the outer and the inner and His meditations are a testimony to that.

AA - About the state that you met Ma Yog Laxmi.

MS - I met Ma Yog Laxmi. She was due for an operation and I was fortunate to be with her for several weeks. She was like and embodiment of these two so well related issues of work and meditation. There was no dividing line in these two as far as she was concerned. 

AA - What did you see her relationship with Osho?

MS - It was a total surrender for the master and yet it seemed she always wanted to protect Him. 

AA - And this feeling cost her very dearly.

MS - I was fortunate to be with her just the week before she left her body and I think it paid her. I don't think she lost any opportunity in this lifetime. She was beautifully witnessing her sick body and yet she was in absolute connection with the master and with her inner self. She june have lost the post of a secretary but she was absolute connected with Him.

AA - What was her style of working? You must have seen her working.

MS - She was a go getter, come what june.

AA - Was that style suitable for Osho's work?

MS - She was responsible for an immense growth during the earlier phases of Osho's work and she was very hard at it.

AA - When did you last see her?

MS - Just a week before she left her body. 

AA - Would you describe that meeting? How you felt or did you feel in any way that she was about to leave her body or were there any other indications?

MS - I had been with her very closely in the years before she fell sick and she left her body. Definitely her body was very weak and at times difficult for her to speak as well. So there were indications that her body was nearly dying. However she was full of energy when I met her and her face was the same and she spoke with the same charging energy and radiance and she was just full of Osho all the time. She talked about Him and Him only; His body, His work and His people.

AA - What did she tell you about people who were taking care of His body at that time?

MS - She raised a few issues related with His work and specifically said that His work has the potential of magnification yet it was not growing at the required pace. 

AA - Due to what reasons?

MS - She has quote various reasons for it. There were some people who had split and they were gurus in making in themselves and also there were issues of larger context.

AA - Was she satisfied with the group doing the work at that time consisting of Devraj, Anando.

MS - She said there was immense scope yet things were not in full care.

AA - Anything else you remember as you had spent a lot of time with her. Anything else which was extraordinary or very simple.

MS - She lived in the moment always, very spontaneous, very likeable, quick decision maker and very loving to all. 

AA - Did she have her own personal ambitions?

MS - Her contribution to Osho and His work overshadows if she ever had any personal ambitions. I think she was so seeped in Osho that there was no personal self of hers. 

AA - Now we come to another disciple with whom you have had a long and a dear close relationship, Swami Om Prakashji. When did you first meet him?

MS - I met him very early in those days when I had began to read Osho. I would come here as a member of the library, spend a few hours and I would just watch him. 

AA - You loved to watch him, why?

MS - Because he was just calmness. 

AA - So you found you also became calm in some ways?

MS - Yes I don't ever remember anything disturbing his calmness. I heard that he would let people know his mind but he was a very calm, very soft and loving person. 

AA - Did you experience his love and softness?

MS - Yes we had spent some very good and lazy afternoons with him on weekends and celebrated with him on many a occasions. I think he was equally loving to all.

AA - You lived with him at the center for one or two years, I don't remember.

MS - I lived with him for four years.

AA - Four years at the center?

MS - Yes 

AA- That's quite a long time. During this time you must have come close to him and felt a kind of intimate connection. Any other specific instances or happenings you remember.

MS - He was a living example of guru and disciple connection and his meditation gave him deep insight in Osho's work. He led meditations from several years. Even during his peak years he was a simple man yet at the same time he was very calm. 

AA - During those days when he was conducting meditations, would you meditate with him?

MS - Many a times.

AA - What was it like to do dynamic meditation?

MS - It was a dynamic experience. I remember once it was well past the dynamic hour of meditation and he was there taking care of me and soothing me. During the meditation many issues had surfaced and I felt like a volcano and he waited until I had calmed down and then we met each other and I had told him my experience.

AA- Did you look up to him as a loving father?

MS - I have a very loving father and I was away from him for about four years when I lived at the center, during which time I perhaps did not miss my father as much as I got a lot of love and affection from him. He was also a good guide. 

AA - Did you had a kind of a guru bhai feeling with him or he was a little bit different from the usual guru bhais?

MS - It was a very beautiful co -disciple feeling with him. We shared experiences. Despite his age and his seniority as a sannyasin who had been meditating for many years and his virtual growth he was like a friend.

AA - Did you at that time feel that he was enlightened?

MS - There was a distinct difference between him and many other senior, respectable people in the society that I knew and the calmness and the serenity that I felt with him was amazing. 

AA - The flavour, the essence, the fragrance, was it somehow similar to what you felt with Ma Laxmi or with Osho. 

MS - Yes, although Laxmi ma was always bubbling with energy, Swami Om Prakashji was like silent door. And as a co meditator, yes, he had the same kind of flavours. 

AA - After you left center, you did not meet him and have the same close contact with him and then it happened again, you had a regular and close contact with him. In the meantime, you had lived in Pune and had come across and experienced much more growth in your life. So when you came in contact with him again, the second phase, did you find him different from the old Swamiji that you had contact with in the center earlier.

MS - Yes I went to live in the world and to earn to money and to also to work as a distinguished person in my career. I wanted to do an independent extension of my work and the distance actually helped me to see the overview of the four years I spent here. I came across many a people in Pune, many co travelers and I noticed when I returned to the center after a few years, he was even more spontaneous and yet very rooted.

AA - Going back to the days when you lived in center, did you ever resent him?

MS - No, he did not give me an opportunity to, in fact I don't remember anyone having resentment during that period of my stay here at the center. When people wanted to share, they would go to him and he was available to everyone. 

AA - It was all open and positive, there was no love and hate.

MS - He was like the central father figure.

AA - Coming back again to the second phase, did you again feel that he was more enlightened than before? You said he was more calm.

MS - I felt more light with him when I returned and he seemed more relaxed like he had come home, touched the inner chords somewhere.

AA - In june 2000, he disclosed his enlightenment, did you feel any difference after june 2000?

MS - It seemed like there was more open space around him after june. As though he was just not there, a physical body was there but there was an energy that one associated with immediately. 

AA - How did you feel to be with him? Here you have a man you are saying who is just not there. What is that experience to be with such a being?

MS - It helped me to go back to myself many a times when I was with him and connect deeper with myself. AS if he was an extension of the existential energy. 

AA - In 1990, Osho left His body. Were you in Delhi or Pune? 

MS - I was in Delhi.

AA - Do you recall something about the time you heard that He had left the body and what was your feelings?

MS - When Osho left the body it was a loss but it was not like a grieving loss. I always felt like He is here. Time is not like physical divisions with Osho and He is always there. 

AA - Soon after Ma Laxmi had left her body?

MS - I was unprepared when Osho left His body but with Ma Laxmi since I have been seeing her failing health, one was gradually prepared to accept her departure. Sometimes I miss the bubbliness. 

AA - So coming back to Swamiji, did your being with him helped you in your meditation or work or in your life in some ways.

MS - I think it helped me in all the aspects and it helped me to be more rooted with myself because here was a living testimony of what Osho had said about spirituality, living each moment, spontaneity and sincerity. Work is a meditation and he was a living example of it which is very inspiring because I don't ever remember him being negative in any issues. He was always positive and very loving. 

AA - Were you really attached to him?

MS - To some extent yes because I think I miss some moments when I care about being with him.

AA - So the morning you heard about his leaving the body, what was your first emotions. 

MS- The first thought that came to my mind was to be with him in his calmness and that I had to strengthen that connection as a body connection or whatsoever.

AA - So what did you do?

MS - Fortunately I am very close to the center and in a few minutes I was here. I sat by his body and as though he was sleeping, I kept watching him. He was there. Just like he was there many many years ago when I lived here. I sat and I meditated with him. Soon it was time to leave the room for the celebration. It was as though he was there watching it all. The deep calmness, that silence pervaded all through the celebration and I think it pervades the center even today. 

AA - So do you connect with him in some ways today?

MS - Yes, I was fortunate to return to the center after a gap of some years which was like a boon and the connection is still there. He june not be sitting there in his chair and laughing sometimes when he sat in the evening but it feels like he is there. 

AA - Any other experience that you might like to share with us after he left the body.

MS - The celebration after he departed from his body has had a deep impression on many people who volunteered to talk about it to me although I have never talked to people because I had a very silent connection with him. It seemed like he was watching the last moments when he was in the body and even after that. The energy was as loving and caring while he was in body.

AA - You have seen the center grow and you lived at the center and now he is not there in the body. How do you see the future of Osho's work from the center?

MS - The positive energy that is here and with so many meditators that are here and with Osho's presence here the potential is very high for work here.

AA - So you feel He will take care of His own work Himself.

MS - Yes

AA - You know a few sannyasins who became enlightened before they left their bodies. I could recollect Dadaji, Mataji, Maitreyji. Of course you june not have had a close contact with them, but you see a link somewhere.

MS - Yes I was lucky to have known Swami Maitreya for sometime both in Pune and in Delhi and I witnessed his departure from the body and the death celebration that followed. The common thread that followed in the passing away of these two and also of Mataji is the meditative ambience that persists. What makes these people different from many other people is that when they were living in their bodies, they lived with so much totality that it can be felt even today. It feels they are present even now. 

AA - Thank you.

MS - Thank you.